Us vs. Us...
As if things weren't bad enough in general, I was reminded this morning that, it can indeed, be worse.
I was surfing Jim's message board, and found the following, posted by someone using the screenname Rat (who, judging by their other posts is a T&D)...
I love Dawn, but an NTBU should not utilize the word "solidarity".
I have nothing against the people, but the concept of NTBU flies in the face of union euphoria.
Wow...usually I'm happy to have a fan, but they generally aren't trying to throw me under the bus.
Thanks to Jim, who responded with the following...
Rat
I disagree a bit with u on this issue. NTBU NON TRADITIONAL BARGAINING UNIT. She still is in the bargaining unit and doesn't boss around traditional union members. I'm ok with it. 100's NBU, that was the sore spot.
Teachers, fireman, clerks, telemarketers, and office people can be union. If she obverves and respects the principles of unionism, I'm ok with it. It doesn't need to be a good guy bad buy, cowboys Vs Indians thing.
At this point, I think things are looking up! Alas, it was a short lived feeling of sunshine, as Rat came back with...
Though I understand they still pay dues, the nature of the positions, and more importantly how they're chosen, flies in the face of traditional seniority values. How often is the job filled prior to posting? Seniority works because it circumvents the suck-up technique.
There is no way an NTBU should remain on the floor while more senior people are in the jobs bank.
Well, of course, I couldn't remain silent for too long, now could I?
Well, Rat, if an NTBU shouldn't remain on the floor, then neither should the trades. As I recall, the 99s & 00s who where NTBUs went out the door with the rest of their seniority during the permanent layoffs, but those who had made it into the trades were still here. Union is union, regardless of job classification. We should all be on the same side.
After all, that is exactly what happened...the 99s & 00s that were in skilled trades didn't get to experience the joy of the permanent layoff, while all of the others did...including the NTBUs.
NTBU jobs were all posted publicly for anyone to apply for. I am personally sick to death of the perception that I'm a suck up, sell out, or whatever the insult of the week is for NTBUs. Every NTBU pays the same dues that every other bargaining unit employee does, and gets less representation. That's not the fault of our reps, that's the fault of the contract provisions that created our jobs. The union can't protect NTBU jobs, as was made brutally apparent in October.
Look people, we are all in this together, whether we choose to stay or go. I don't need someone from what has traditionally been a group of sacred cows to preach unionism or solidarity to me. I don't mean to be harsh (really), but it's a slap in the face to the remaining NTBUs to be treated by anyone as less than what we are.
In solidarity,
Dawn
I was surfing Jim's message board, and found the following, posted by someone using the screenname Rat (who, judging by their other posts is a T&D)...
I love Dawn, but an NTBU should not utilize the word "solidarity".
I have nothing against the people, but the concept of NTBU flies in the face of union euphoria.
Wow...usually I'm happy to have a fan, but they generally aren't trying to throw me under the bus.
Thanks to Jim, who responded with the following...
Rat
I disagree a bit with u on this issue. NTBU NON TRADITIONAL BARGAINING UNIT. She still is in the bargaining unit and doesn't boss around traditional union members. I'm ok with it. 100's NBU, that was the sore spot.
Teachers, fireman, clerks, telemarketers, and office people can be union. If she obverves and respects the principles of unionism, I'm ok with it. It doesn't need to be a good guy bad buy, cowboys Vs Indians thing.
At this point, I think things are looking up! Alas, it was a short lived feeling of sunshine, as Rat came back with...
Though I understand they still pay dues, the nature of the positions, and more importantly how they're chosen, flies in the face of traditional seniority values. How often is the job filled prior to posting? Seniority works because it circumvents the suck-up technique.
There is no way an NTBU should remain on the floor while more senior people are in the jobs bank.
Well, of course, I couldn't remain silent for too long, now could I?
Well, Rat, if an NTBU shouldn't remain on the floor, then neither should the trades. As I recall, the 99s & 00s who where NTBUs went out the door with the rest of their seniority during the permanent layoffs, but those who had made it into the trades were still here. Union is union, regardless of job classification. We should all be on the same side.
After all, that is exactly what happened...the 99s & 00s that were in skilled trades didn't get to experience the joy of the permanent layoff, while all of the others did...including the NTBUs.
NTBU jobs were all posted publicly for anyone to apply for. I am personally sick to death of the perception that I'm a suck up, sell out, or whatever the insult of the week is for NTBUs. Every NTBU pays the same dues that every other bargaining unit employee does, and gets less representation. That's not the fault of our reps, that's the fault of the contract provisions that created our jobs. The union can't protect NTBU jobs, as was made brutally apparent in October.
Look people, we are all in this together, whether we choose to stay or go. I don't need someone from what has traditionally been a group of sacred cows to preach unionism or solidarity to me. I don't mean to be harsh (really), but it's a slap in the face to the remaining NTBUs to be treated by anyone as less than what we are.
In solidarity,
Dawn
11 Comments:
At 7/28/2006 9:04 PM, Anonymous said…
Well said, Dawn.
You also could have said that many tradesmen and women got where they are by SUCKING UP and then some. Most people know what I mean. C'mon, how many relatives and friends of union officials could we name? Oh, and who gets away more with SITTING ON THEIR ASSES ALL DAY doing next to nothing? Trades or NTBU's? Right! Go trim your mullet!
At 7/29/2006 12:32 AM, Anonymous said…
Oops. Didn't mean to stoke the fire Spence. I meant it more of a slap at the union leadership than the NTBUs. My relatives, friends, and neighbors are NTBUs and I am not critical of them or you. The NTBUs I work with keep the whole area running.
The Tool and Die trade has the equivalent of a jobs bank (dept. 552). The only difference is it froze our ability to bump to our toolroom of choice.
The underlying disdain you have for the trades not withstanding, I still love you.
Your Buddy,
Rat
At 7/29/2006 12:43 AM, Anonymous said…
I've deleted my posts on Jimmy's site as they have been less than constructive. I'm always interested in healthy debate but never want it to be personal.
You have my apologies and respect.
In As Much Solidarity As a Sacred Cow Can Muster,
Rat
At 7/29/2006 4:28 AM, Spencemo said…
I don't have an underlying disdain for the trades. Really. We are all in the same boat now, and your post just kinda pissed me off. Fortunately, I have my own website, so I don't have to clutter someone else's with my personal rants!
At 7/29/2006 12:03 PM, Anonymous said…
As this roller coaster of unemployment and employee carnage nears the top of the first hill, the emotional toll is being felt. Damnit, I watched some good friends walking out without saying goodbye. Can't take it personally, though. The company will put out its share of disinformation. This train will be heading downhill. Haven't signed yet, but will soon. I'm glad for those of you putting out reliable info. The Union Hall better get its head out of its collective ass, and soon.
Taking applications, anyone?
At 7/31/2006 5:02 PM, Spencemo said…
You just have to remember the one, simple truth at the core of all of our problems...it's all George Bush's fault.
At 7/31/2006 7:58 PM, Anonymous said…
Where is the fighting spirit in this union? They just rolled over and said "you better take this and sign". Now that's negotiation at its finest! A lot of people want to try and ride this out. Good luck with that. I'll have to take my 140 and head off into a hopefully unionless sunset. Lifetime job...yep.
At 7/31/2006 8:43 PM, Spencemo said…
Yeah, we thought that said lifetime job security...it really said lifetime job hunting...
At 8/01/2006 1:18 AM, Anonymous said…
Yeah
It's sad that you can work along side of people, pass them in aisle-ways, and say hello for 5,12,20 years; but yet some of those people just walk away and not look back.
with regard to daweener's comment about "divide and conquer." I don't agree at all. 2 people get into an argument and that means that the union has been "divided." ??? That's a hasty and cynical observation. I'd be willing to bet that daweener is the garden variety: Contribute Jack Squat but criticize those that do type. First in line to mope and critize their reality, but do nothing to change it.
At 8/01/2006 3:43 PM, Spencemo said…
Daweenr, Anonymous...if you two don't stop that bickering, I'll turn this blog around RIGHT NOW!
At 8/02/2006 1:47 AM, Anonymous said…
2 Shay Daweener
I have to agree with that snapshot. There is a divide between the bargainers and us. I thought you were monday morning quarterbacking about the blog and message board debates. There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate. Conflict Orientation.
I extent an olive branch. Pitted even.
Post a Comment
<< Home